We’ve got a special treat for longtime listeners to the Safe Spaces podcast as hosts Anton Hill and Nathan Evans invite a guest into their protected space; Dean Esmay (aka Max Kolbe), a controversial MRA (Men’s Rights Activist), anti-atheist activist, and culture counter-critic joins the program for an extended talk about his work as a pioneering member in his chosen fields.

He’s also a featured subject in Cassie Jaye’s equally controversial documentary The Red Pill, in which she attempts an open dialogue with prominent MRAs to hear their side of the feminism-men’s rights story. The film has since become a lightning rod of its own, having been banned in Australia and labeled “anti-women” by several lesser open-minded feminist activists.

The guys leave no stone unturned as Dean is grilled on everything from his roles in helping shape both the MRA and anti-atheist communities, his honest views on feminism (and feminists themselves), truths about gender inequity, science versus religion, and whether online cultural movements can – and should – be held accountable for actions of individuals.